“A network state is a social network with a moral innovation, a sense of national consciousness, a recognized founder, a capacity for collective action, an in-person level of civility, an integrated cryptocurrency, a consensual government limited by a social smart contract, an archipelago of crowdfunded physical territories, a virtual capital, and an on-chain census that proves a large enough population, income, and real-estate footprint to attain a measure of diplomatic recognition.“
— Balaji Srinivasan
Balaji S. Srinivasan (@balajis) is an angel investor and entrepreneur. Formerly the CTO of Coinbase and general partner at Andreessen Horowitz, he was also the co-founder of Earn.com (acquired by Coinbase), Counsyl (acquired by Myriad), Teleport (acquired by Topia), and Coin Center.
He was named to the MIT Technology Review’s “Innovators Under 35,” won a Wall Street Journal Innovation Award, and holds a BS/MS/PhD in Electrical Engineering and an MS in Chemical Engineering, all from Stanford University. Balaji also teaches the occasional class at Stanford, including an online MOOC in 2013, which reached 250,000+ students worldwide.
His new book is The Network State: How To Start a New Country. You can also read it for free at 1729.com.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating, Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement, and Shopify global commerce platform providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business. More on all three below.
The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.
#606: Balaji S. Srinivasan — The Network State and How to Start a New Country
This episode is brought to you by Shopify! Shopify is one of my favorite platforms and one of my favorite companies. Shopify is designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business. In no time flat, you can have a great looking online store that brings your ideas to life, and you can have the tools to manage your day-to-day and drive sales. No coding or design experience required.
More than a store, Shopify grows with you, and they never stop innovating, providing more and more tools to make your business better and your life easier. Go to Shopify.com/Tim for a FREE 14-day trial and get full access to Shopify’s entire suite of features.
This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep! Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover is the easiest and fastest way to sleep at the perfect temperature. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking to offer the most advanced (and user-friendly) solution on the market. Simply add the Pod Pro Cover to your current mattress and start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. It also splits your bed in half, so your partner can choose a totally different temperature.
And now, my dear listeners—that’s you—can get $250 off the Pod Pro Cover. Simply go to EightSleep.com/Tim or use code TIM at checkout.
This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.
Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.
Want to hear Balaji’s last time on the podcast? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discussed “real” journalism, DeFi risks and rewards, potholes on the road to a utopian decentralized world, transhumanism versus anarcho-primitivism, Bitcoin versus gold, the problems with a 51-percent democracy, angel investing in the twenty-first century, COVID lessons learned, and much more.
#547: Balaji Srinivasan — Centralized China vs Decentralized World, The DeFi Matrix, Ascending vs Descending Trends, Bitcoin Mining as Energy Storage, Reputational Civil War, and Maximalism vs. Optimalism
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
- Connect with Balaji S. Srinivasan:
- The Network State: How To Start a New Country by Balaji Srinivasan | Amazon
- 1729.com
- Balaji Srinivasan on the Future of Bitcoin and Ethereum, How to Become Noncancelable, the Path to Personal Freedom and Wealth in a New World, the Changing Landscape of Warfare, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #506
- Balaji Srinivasan — Centralized China vs Decentralized World, The DeFi Matrix, Ascending vs Descending Trends, Bitcoin Mining as Energy Storage, Reputational Civil War, and Maximalism vs. Optimalism | The Tim Ferriss Show #547
- “I’ve Never Seen One Like This Before.” | Travis Kling, Twitter
- Inside the Madness of the Stock Market | Jason Zweig
- Market Depth | Investopedia
- How the Politically Unthinkable Can Become Mainstream | The New York Times
- Overton Window | Wikipedia
- Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child: Michael Fay’s Caning in Singapore | HuffPost
- Explore What the World Is Searching | Google Trends
- Linux vs. Unix: What’s the Difference? | Opensource.com
- Blatty Sues Times on Best-Seller List | The New York Times
- The Exorcist: A Novel by William Peter Blatty | Amazon
- Legion by William Peter Blatty | Amazon
- Web Framework | Sinatra
- Dr. Andrew Huberman — A Neurobiologist on Optimizing Sleep, Enhancing Performance, Reducing Anxiety, Increasing Testosterone, and Using the Body to Control the Mind | The Tim Ferriss Show #521
- The Fourth Industrial Revolution by Klaus Schwab | Amazon
- What is Russell Conjugation? | Tom Dehnel
- Access In-Depth News Archives | LexisNexis
- Gates Demonstrates the Future at Electronics Show | The Ledger
- Why and How Is Mobile the Future? | Quora
- Snap’s New Spectacles Let You View the World in AR Through the Lenses | Mashable
- Why the Oculus Quest 2 Is Still the Virtual Reality Headset to Buy | CNN Underscored
- Google Glass Enterprise Edition 2 Review: Better than the First Version, But… | The Ghost Howls
- Apple’s AR Glasses Reportedly Coming Late 2024 | 9to5Mac
- Augmented Reality | Apple Developer
- Pokémon GO
- Terminator (T-800) Vision | YouTube
- Neuroscientist Shares Trick to Manipulate Your Brain for Alertness In 10 Seconds | Design Taxi
- Echo Dot Smart Speaker with Alexa | Amazon
- Solana Mobile Debuts Saga, a Flagship Android Phone for Web3 | Solana
- Phone Key Set Up for Model 3 and Model Y | Tesla
- Skein Definition & Meaning | Merriam-Webster
- “Super Soldier Serum Is Real.” | Balaji Srinivasan, Twitter
- What is Bully Whippet Syndrome? | DDC Pets & Vets
- Limitless | Prime Video
- Icarus | Netflix
- IU Doctors Cite Other Side of Lance Armstrong: Cancer Fighter | Indy Star
- Game of Shadows: Barry Bonds, BALCO, and the Steroids Scandal that Rocked Professional Sports by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams | Amazon
- Belgian Blue | Beef2Live
- Double Muscling in Cattle: Genes, Husbandry, Carcasses, and Meat | Animals
- Bigger, Stronger, Faster | Prime Video
- Weekend Update: Kevin Nealon on the All-Drug Olympics | SNL
- Our Science | Kaeberlein Lab
- The 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy Ferriss | Amazon
- Tim Ferriss Shoulder Surgery | 4-Hour Body
- DALL·E 2 | OpenAI
- Cliodynamics: History as Science | Peter Turchin
- State, Nation, and Nation-State: Clarifying Misused Terminology | Penn State
- A Guide to Understanding Gender Identity and Pronouns | NPR
- What Is Bitcoin? | Investopedia
- What Is the USD (United States Dollar)? | Investopedia
- Opinion: Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police | The New York Times
- Mapping Every Disputed Territory in the World | Metrocosm
- 54° 40′ or Fight | US History
- No Old Maps Actually Say ‘Here Be Dragons’ | The Atlantic
- Facebook vs. Twitter: How Do They Stack Up in 2022? | Website Planet
- What Is E-Residency? | Republic of Estonia
- Freetown Christiania | Visit Copenhagen
- How We Changed Our Minds in 2021 | Common Sense
- How Civil Wars Start: And How to Stop Them by Barbara F. Walter | Amazon
- El Narco: The Bloody Rise of Mexican Drug Cartels by Ioan Grillo | Amazon
- Mapping Civil Unrest in the United States (2000–2020) | Visual Capitalist
- Bitcoin Maximalism | Investopedia
- Strauss–Howe Generational Theory | Wikipedia
- The Fourth Turning: An American Prophecy – What the Cycles of History Tell Us About America’s Next Rendezvous with Destiny by William Strauss and Neil Howe | Amazon
- In 2020, Protests Spread Across the Globe with a Similar Message: Black Lives Matter | NPR
- 2021 United States Capitol Attack | Wikipedia
- United States Fed Funds Rate (2022 Data): 1971-2021 Historical; 2023 Forecast | Trading Economics
- Slow Steaming | Wikipedia
- Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Criteria | Investopedia
- 35 Countries Where the US Has Supported Fascists, Drug Lords, and Terrorists | Salon
- Proud Boys and Antifa Clash in Violent Protest in Portland | The Telegraph
- Executive Order 6102 — Requiring Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates to Be Delivered to the Government | The American Presidency Project
- Canada Ends Its Freeze on Hundreds of Accounts Tied to Protests | The New York Times
- Seizing Russian Assets to Help Ukraine Sets Off White House Debate | The New York Times
- Welcoming Remarks by Chair Powell at the Inaugural Conference on the International Roles of the US Dollar | Federal Reserve Board
- “A US Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) Is Being Examined.” | Nicolas Mateo, Twitter
- What Is the Arab Spring, and How Did It Start? | Al Jazeera
- The Role of Social Media in the Arab Uprisings | Pew Research Center
- AOC and Tucker Are Wrong about Usury and Christianity | Foundation for Economic Education
- Chris Dixon and Naval Ravikant — The Wonders of Web3, How to Pick the Right Hill to Climb, Finding the Right Amount of Crypto Regulation, Friends with Benefits, and the Untapped Potential of NFTs | The Tim Ferriss Show #542
- Hip-Hop Loves Cash App, and That Might Be Why Jack Dorsey Bought Tidal | GQ
- Could Quantum Computers Defeat Bitcoin? Not So Fast. | Decrypt
- What Is DeFi? | CoinDesk
- 5 Analytics Tools to Make You a Better Investor | Bankless
- Privacy and Convenience | Zcash
- El Salvador Purchases 80 Additional Bitcoin at $19K, President Bukele Says | CoinDesk
- What Are the Best Examples of a Politician Changing His or Her Mind? | Quora
- Ohio Republican Senate Candidate Mocked for Bitcoin Tweet | The Independent
- With 58% Inflation, Nobody in Argentina Knows The Price of Anything | Bloomberg
- A $100k Prize for a Decentralized Inflation Dashboard | 1729
- $100 Trillion Zimbabwe | Tim Ferriss, Twitter
- Wild Wild Country | Netflix
- The God That Failed by Richard H. Crossman and David C. Engerman | Amazon
- Can America’s ‘Civil Religion’ Still Unite the Country? | NPR
- Political Theology II: The Myth of the Closure of any Political Theology by Carl Schmitt | Amazon
- What Political Violence Is Actually Like | David Hines on Twitter
- Good vs. Bad Carbs: What Should You Eat? | Cleveland Clinic
- Metcalfe’s Law Explains How the Value of Networks Grows Exponentially | Peter Fisk
- The Private Club Exemption to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 | Journal of Urban and Contemporary Law
- Principality of Sealand
- Tyranny of the Majority | Wikipedia
- The Physics of the Fosbury Flop | Stanford University
- The Mosquito Coast by Paul Theroux | Amazon
- Animal Farm by George Orwell | Amazon
- Opening Humanity’s Next Frontier | The Seasteading Institute
- China Coup: The Great Leap to Freedom by Roger Garside | Amazon
- Ghosts in the Machine | Psywar
- Biden Pledges to Defend Taiwan if It Faces a Chinese Attack | The New York Times
- ‘Zero Covid’ and Lockdowns in China Have Many Dreaming Of Leaving | The Washington Post
- What China’s Surveillance Means for the Rest of the World | Time
- Paul Johnson | Charlie Rose
- Economic Survey Graphs | Balaji Srinivasan, Twitter
- India’s Trends | Balaji Srinivasan, Twitter
- The Internet Country by Aaryaman Vir and Rahul Sanghi | Tigerfeathers
- India’s Budget | Balaji Srinivasan, Twitter
- Trillion Dollar Paint Job by Mike Solana | Pirate Wires
- Origins of the ‘Lisp’ of Spain | ThoughtCo.
- Google’s AI-Powered ‘Inclusive Warnings’ Feature Is Very Broken | Vice
- Metonymy | Wikipedia
- “Deprecate Metonyms via Decentralizing Technology.” | Balaji Srinivasan, Twitter
SHOW NOTES
Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
- The current state of crypto and overall markets
- Market depth and the Overton window
- The challenges of identifying possible trends
- Does transhumanism need rebranding?
- Augmented reality glasses: the next big thing?
- Rethinking Icarus from a transhumanist, pro-innovation perspective
- DALL-E 2 as a compact programming language
- Peter Turchin and cliodynamics
- What is a network state?
- Humans like to fight over borders — even when they’re invisible
- American anarchy
- Bitcoin vs. gold as an inflation hedge
- What needs to happen for Bitcoin to behave in the way Bitcoin holders would like it to behave?
- Society as a service: how the establishment of a network state could succeed — without devolving into a cult
- Chinese control
- Missionary over mercenary; innovation over top-down control
- India’s upward trends
- Establishment disdain for tech interlopers (and the feeling is mutual)
- Parting thoughts
MORE BALAJI SRINIVASAN QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW
“The worst thing to do is buy an asset when it’s in the news and sell it when it’s in the news.”
— Balaji Srinivasan
“Super soldier serum is real.”
— Balaji Srinivasan
“The Wright Brothers were right. Icarus is a myth.”
— Balaji Srinivasan
“A network state is a social network with a moral innovation, a sense of national consciousness, a recognized founder, a capacity for collective action, an in-person level of stability, an integrated cryptocurrency, an archipelago of crowdfunded physical territories, a virtual capital, and an on-chain census that proves a large enough population income and real estate footprint to attain a measure of diplomatic recognition.”
— Balaji Srinivasan
“Democrats will only marry Democrats to a higher percentage and Republicans are tending to only want to marry other Republicans. That has been growing. The thing is that you iterate that out one generation and what happens? That becomes ethnicity. Ideology becomes biology.”
— Balaji Srinivasan
“They see a border, they fight over it. And you can see, for example, the Franco-German border between France and Germany. The border you can’t see is the border between Twitter and Facebook.”
— Balaji Srinivasan
“Only those assets that can’t be frozen or seized are your assets. And Bitcoin has a root system that extends way outside the United States to hundreds of millions of people around the world [who] value it. And that is not the case for your frozen assets on a stock exchange, for your valueless dollars.”
— Balaji Srinivasan
“If, in the 2010s, social media became what all politics is about, by the end of the 2020s, cryptocurrency becomes what all politics is about. You will not be able to fund your government without it.”
— Balaji Srinivasan
PEOPLE MENTIONED
Related and Recommended
The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 700 million downloads. It has been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it’s been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.